Harvard Hesitations
Ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to go to Harvard. I hoped I would have the opportunity to go as an undergrad. But, my application was submitted and then subsequently waitlisted and rejected. Although my dream came to a halt, Harvard was still in the back of my mind as an option for graduate school.
Recent events have made me want to re-evaluate my relationship with Harvard. I can no longer say outwardly that I truly want to go there. And my decision has more to do with the people I have met, worked with, befriended, and dated post-college than with the instituation itself. With the exception of one person, almost everyone I have come across with a degree from that school fits into one of two categories: (1) extremely out there, odd, different... almost something freakishly inconsistent OR (2) incredibly --- usually unwarranted --- high opinion of themselves. For the ones that fall into category 1... I generally came across them through my classical music endeavors. To give them the benefit of the doubt, most of the people involved in classical music at a high caliber performance level do interact oddly in social situations. The category 2's however, are a totally different story...
It seems like Harvard has a way of taking people, who were perfectly lovely and down to earth, and turning them into status and money crazed, self-centered individuals. I cannot say that everyone from Harvard is that way, because I have not met everyone from there and I cannot generalize to that extent. But the individuals I have come across from the Undergrad, Law, Business, and Public Policy Schools, often claim to be open minded but look down their noses at non- Harvard people, or anyone with a different opinion than them. And almost all of them love to be repeatedly told how smart they are, how wonderful they are, how perfect they are because they went to Harvard. One actually told me once how pleased she was that someone found out she went to Harvard and pulled her asside in a group of people to tell her how smart and wonderful she is. I wonder how that made everyone else feel.
My question is, is this the power that Harvard has over it's constituency? or is it good at self selecting individuals that are already encompassing of this personality? is there pressure to acclimate if you are not like that? and, I guess most importantly, if I had the opportunity to go to HBS, is it inevitable that I would become that type of person as well?
Of course, this is not a dilema I have at the moment, but if it was, I don't know if I'm willing to go. On the whole, I have been unimpressed with Harvard grads, not because I think they lack achievement, but because most of the ones I've come across lack sensitivity, compassion, and creativity. I don't want to go to Harvard if it means I will lose those things, as they are more important to me than having HBS on my resume.
posted by MBA Cutie @ 11:04 AM
12 Comments:
I agree in many respects with your post about Harvard - I was actually admitted there undergrad and turned it down in favor of another Ivy. Quite honestly, though, the name Harvard causes people to view you differently whether you want it or not. I live in the South and being an Ivy grad is pretty rare here (as opposed to NYC where they run in packs). People ooh and ahh about where I went to school once they wrestle it out of me, but my opinion is that it's just a name. The education, experience, and character that you take away comes from what you put into it. If all they want is the name on a resume to throw around, that's one approach people take. But if you go there with a good idea of who you are and what is really important in life, it's a great place to grow. And you'll find that there are a large number of people there who aren't as you describe...I wonder if there is some selection bias based on where you live, what those people do, and your interests?
I'm surprised that you're living in NYC and weren't able to meet someone that defies those conclusions. I went to Harvard, and don't believe I fall into either of those categories.
And no, it's not just because I'm egocentric and don't realize it. I have a bunch of friends, myself included, who are working in creative and compassionate enterprises. People who started non-profits emphasizing social entrepeneurship, people working in health centers in el salvador, people leading the charge for sustainable development of developing nations, and even one who started a musical software company. I'm also friends with classmates who work in banking who definitely have egos, but there are those who also don't.
Regardless, I'd be glad to introduce you to some of them if you ever make it out to SF. And good luck with the MBA apps. I'm waiting to hear on some as well.
I have not had too many ru-ins with Harvard grads but what you wrote about is the stereotype I have in my head and the reason I did not apply there.
One of the directors at my current job got her MBA at HBS. She is totally an outgoing , fun, and down to earth woman. She told me that she made a mistake picking Harvard over Wharton & Kellogg (those were her other admits) because she just did not fit into the culture. SHe is sad that she missed out on really fitting in and having fun with people who were more like her.
Dan - are any of the SF guys cute? :)
I feel you are going to find the ego-attitude at any top-5 business school..
Having the "Harvard Business School" name on your C.V. only opens the doors, or is that floodgates?
Having an MBA from HBS is like owning platinum bars: you can take them anywhere and people all over the world have heard of HBS.
It is interesting, for Wharton, albeit a top-5 school, does not have the recognition that HBS has and people often confuse Wharton's business school with their undergraduate school.
As a side note, my spouse had two bosses (at the same company) who went to Harvard Law School..
These two people were the most despicable and morally-deprived individuals I have ever met.
People are either born with or without the "stuck-up, asshole gene," and the school they attend tends to amplify it.
come on. don't you think you're being a bit too general. I didn't attend Harvard ( I went to their rival) but I agree with Kilgore. People have strong opinions of schools like Harvard, there is never a middle ground. People have immediate preconceptions of who you are based on your school, because there are very few schools which have a history like harvard's. It works both ways though. Some of my classmates have a glorified sense of entitlement because our ranking in US News. Harvard people are smart, but they're not perfect.
I think eveyone needs to get over the Harvard myth. It is just one of many goods schools in this country. Everyone applies to Harvard because they think it is the enchanted forest where nothing can go wrong by attending there. We all hunger for certain amount of status.
So when you applied to Harvard, did you do it because you did your research and was honest with yourself about why wanted to attend, or did you apply just for the cachet of calling yourself a "Haarvaard Woman"?
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You know --- I applied because I fit the 80% profile of applicants and it has a great reputation built around the case method - and I have never learned or been taught in that style... but the decision to apply there was a bit grudging on my part... I think that it's a great school academically, and would have much rather preferred to go there for my undergrad, but am/was concerned with the stigma associated with the school. I should probably change my number from one normal person to about three or four, but the number is still not any where near that of other schools. I don't know if my personality is really a good match for it however. People are telling me to just go if I get in, because I may like it, or who cares if I don't.. it's Harvard. I dont' know. Something to think about I guess.
Interesting blog; interesting post, as well.
I don't know any large, good organization that enjoys a neutral/ mildly positive reaction uniformly from people. People are either in admiration or in downright disapproval of such places. I would be surprised if HBS (or any other school that enjoyed such a strong reputation) would manage such a feat.
So I could give you examples of HBS alumni who are "nice", but I don't think it proves anything.
Are you sure you’re not just stressed that you might not get in? It seems you’re trying to talk yourself into not caring if you’re rejected.
I was also aware of the Harvard stereotype, and I do know one man who fits it (undergrad). However, the number of friends, and friends of friends, I’ve met from the Law school, Kennedy school, and b-school are really wonderful, friendly, down-to-earth people. I knew most of these people pre-Harvard grad school, and it did not change them. Well, the one at the Kennedy school seems to aspire to be even more poor than she was while working at a non-profit, but other than a total lack of interest in money (and she’s got a lot of loans and is from a normal family) and a passion for her current project, she’s the same cool friend she has always been.
Be wary of those shouting out the Harvard name every chance they get. The people I know like to be generic and say they went to grad school in/around Boston and only name names when pressed.
I visited HBS as a side trip to spending a weekend visiting a friend at the Kennedy School. I had no intention of applying to HBS and almost skipped my class visit. However, I’m so happy I went because the class, and the current students were amazing. I had a great visit experience.
The only thing making me not want to apply to Harvard right now is the B-Week message board. It’s scary and a real turn-off.
I really have no idea what my chances of being accepted at Harvard R2 are, but I really, really hope that I have the opportunity to attend. If not, I’ll be disappointed, but it’s just a school. After your MBA, you have to re-join the game of life and with some work experience post-MBA the Harvard/Wharton/Stanford etc. name will matter less and less.
Actually, I ended up applying to Harvard out of peer & parental pressure… and because I had wanted to go there so badly for undergrad, I hoped that enthusiasm would carry over to grad school. I don't think it really has. I don’t know if I'm talking myself out of feeling bad.. I think I will feel bad regardless if I am rejected… rejection from anywhere isn't fun. As far as generalizing, I said I haven't met everyone from there and can't generalize to that extent. However, the ones I have met (and I can actually classify further to say that that Indian people I have met) from there do fit category 2, or if they didn't when they started, the certainly did by the time they graduated.
Hey, it's me again. The last anonymous person before your post. If you go to Harvard, I hope you meet lots of people you like and you stay true to who you are and keep your good qualities...and avoid picking up any poor ones.
It makes a lot of sense that you feel the way you do if you applied to the school b/c you felt pressure. In the end, if you get in, and you visit, and you don't like it, don't make yourself go just for the name. It's two years of your life, and a lot of $$$. You'll thrive the most in a place you really like with classmates you really respect. Good luck! The waiting for interview invites is starting to kill me....so much so that I had started to talk myself out of even wanting to attend an MBA program...I think it's my defense mechanism to deal with my fear of rejection.
I agree with your impressions of H - unfortunately. 3 kids from my high school went there, and they were awesome (bright, hardworking, rockstars) BUT as I grew up and met more and more people from that school, I quickly realized my high school classmates are the H exception.
H both attracts and breeds a certain mentality - exacerbated by the fact that study abroad is almost impossible, so H kids gets sucked into a vortex and never develop an outside perspective of their education / country / community etc. Unless it's one of the handful international students, H grads are mono-lingual and totally out of touch (in my opinion). I would NEVER hire / choose to work with one.
You also missed out on the third type of H person - the athlete / legacy admit who doesn't deserve to be there.
I don't really have any problem with other Ivy grads - it's just a H thing.
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